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Monday, February 06, 2006

Comments

Jack Malebranche

You know...it really is suprising that, considering how many young men there are in the country, this sort of thing doesn't happen more often. People do all sorts of hand-wringing, but this kid wasn't thinking about consequences. He'd probably made up his mind that he was probably going to die from doing this. Hate crimes laws wouldn't have prevented it. He just went NUTS. I don't know that anything could have prevented it. I'm always tempted to associate youthful male violence to the feminization of culture and the lack of outlets for natural male aggression, but I honestly think that you're always going to have a certain amount of kids per million that go haywire. Psychobabblers think you can solve everything, that if we all just change our behavior dramatically, that one kid per million isn't going to go postal. Sooner or later, someone's going to snap, no matter what good intentions we all have. There are things we can do to minimize unnecessary nuttiness, but you can't fix everyone and everything.

And, well, you know that I agree with you that the gay rights movement needs a new song and dance.

Aatom

i agree, Jack, but the parallel I was trying to make is between this kind of nonsensical violence and aggression and the shit we are seeing happen in the Muslim world right now, which is more like 100,000 per million as opposed to 1 in a million. How does the world address the cult-like violent streak in the Muslim world? Is it possible? Are there lessons in a story like this that can help us grapple with the insanity that seems to be sweeping through the Muslim world right now? Because all this guy had was a machete and a gun, and there are people out there right now who are acting just as unhinged who will have access to nuclear weapons. that should scare people much more than this isolated incident does.

Robbie

Grrr. Wish I had read this before I posted today. Note to self: Read Aatom in the morning from now on.

Jack Malebranche

Because all this guy had was a machete and a gun, and there are people out there right now who are acting just as unhinged who will have access to nuclear weapons. that should scare people much more than this isolated incident does.

I'd agree with that statement.

I don't know if you can really connect a nutty kid with a viloent religious movement and get anything useable out of it. Kind of apples and oranges. I didn't disgree with anything specific in your original post, I was just making an observation about the usual national hand-wringing that accompanies these outbursts of antisocial youth behavior.

Aatom

you're probably right, Jack. But the grotesqueness of gratuitous violence frustrates me as well, and I can understand why it's so tempting to want to fit it neatly inside a little indentity politics box. it takes some of the mind-numbing absurdity of it away somehow. and i fear we do the same thing to radical Muslims for the same reason, which is the absolute wrong way to deal with the problem. so although the violence itself may be apples and oranges, the response to the violence seems very similar to me, and very dangerous.

Robbie - you don't read me everyday? i expected more from you. we are so fighting.

Robbie

Of course I read you everyday. But if I'm particularly busy, I sometimes don't get around to reading blogs until later in the afternoon. Especially if they're not in my feeder *hint, nudge, prod*

Aatom

sorry, all the drinking cuts into my blogging time considerably.

Jack Malebranche

Aatom - I don't know if there is a right way to deal with the Muslim problem, beyond strategically targeted nukes. Dead men don't hate.

Aatom

Ouch. You want Israel wiped off the map and all of the Muslim haters? I fear you are approaching a form of Nietszchean eschatology with your logic. I'll stick to being a dopey optimist. I think the Muslim world is in the grip of a 1,000 year depression over their failure to maintain dominance over global culture. That's a tough thing to get over, but they have to if they want to have any remaining relevence. Our job is to help them if we can, and smack them around a bit when they cross the lines of reasonable discourse.

Jack Malebranche

I fear you are approaching a form of Nietszchean eschatology with your logic.

The Nietszchean part is entirely likely. End of the world (yes, I did have to look up eschatology), nah. Or rather, it doesn't have to be. But one has to be ready to put survival before morality.

Optimism is dangerous. Turning the other cheek, a nicety ingrained in the Western mind, is foolish, if the other side isn't prepared to do the same. While people are giving Muslims the benefit of the doubt and coddling them, they're putting down roots all over Europe and breeding like rabbits. I fear that when Europe realizes what has happened, it will be too late for them to do anything about it.

The arab world is playing by different rules. If we played by their rules, the problem would already be solved. Sending a message is easy. Someone beheads one of ours on tape, we behead 50 of theirs on live TV. A village supports a terrorist group, the village gets carpetbombed. Men, women & children die. War isn't fair. War isn't moral. It's just war. And you either play to win, or simply postpone losing.

Aatom

"Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates."

"Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek."

- Satanic Statements 4 and 5, Anton LaVey ;)

Jack Malebranche

Ya got me! I do appreciate it when folks do their research. ;)

What can I say...I'm a practical guy. And I'm a Satanist for a reason--philosophical alignment. It reflects my experience of the world and my evaluation of people as animals.

But if you pull the 'Satan' out, you'll find a policy that has been fairly effective in dealing with problematic populations over the centuries. It's a 'Satanic' strategy, but it's not unique to Satanism. It's just practical. I don't mean this in a crass way , and it isn't directed at you specifically in any way, but it's amazing how easily a certain clarity can be achieved when you stop wishing the world to be something it isn't, and simply accept it for what it is. When you see how people behave, and simply expect them to behave that way without wishing for a different style of behavior from them.

Oh...yeah...and...

HS!

mollycoddler

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I love you, Jack Melabranche.

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